Wow, I knew there was truth in the “placebo” stuff, but the “nocibo” concept… that’s something new. That’s what diagnosis, medication and even everyday life with the “fear porn” on the news, advertising… is based on. They’re making our society sick, not just with harmful substances on medication and food, but turning our own minds against us! Great article Jess!
Hi Jess, this is a great article and fully agree that it’s really amazing what the mind can do!
I struggle though to hold both dualities in play: “Your thoughts can create your reality / emotions / health” and “Environmental factors can’t be overcome with thoughts alone.”
I say this as a survivor of an abusive relationship and family violence. When I was experiencing significant physical and psychological violence and neglect (including from sexism, racism etc), the perpetrators would say, “It’s all in your head / Just think positive thoughts / it’s the story you’re making up / you just need to heal yourself and take personal responsibility / your feelings are nothing to do with me / that’s your stuff / where you’re attention goes, your energy flows” etc.
The usual new age spiritual stuff mixed up with placebo/nocebo ideas (some were doctors). Lots of gaslighting for victims!!
And yet I’m also fascinated by the type of research you mentioned and fully agree the mind is v powerful. I just tend to reject the “mind creates reality” ideas on principle because they did me more harm than good and I need to remember that systemic / external forces do impact my wellbeing (as a woman I’ve been taught to internalise (“it’s all in my head / I’m overreacting / I need to be more generous with this person “ so now I’m trying to practice externalising more (“maybe he’s the problem / maybe the system is the problem”) and it’s done wonders for my wellbeing!
Because now I’m thinking “I’m having a reasonable reaction to unreasonable circumstances “ instead of gaslighting myself and second guessing myself that maybe it’s all in my head and I’m overreacting
I know what you are talking about,what I have found is that people and what they say can be a cover-up on who they are not,it happens because of insecurity.I know what you say about the female position,you feel like you have a role to play,males feel like they have to provide stability,the thoughts you have provided are,I believe,looking to fulfil your female role as a partner.I'm quite old,the term "gaslighting" can be difficult to understand,it seems to suggest trying to obtain something by using falsity,I know a female who uses that on me to threaten with,she comes from China and wont talk about emotional issues because of their suppression of the personality;but most people have insecurity,it's effects amount to a reduction in a persons capacity to understand descriptions comprehensively because of the varying volumes each person has in their past,so it means each person wants to mean at different speeds,this can mean providing an incomplete description,and sometimes,horribly even,accepting one.I have written here about,if you can identify what is troubling or ailing you,it can possibly be countered by the right type of soothing,I've written elsewhere that a problem with having a mental problem dealt with is seeing someone in a professional capacity who can speak to you in just the right way,in a soft way and suggesting what needs to be done,for instance.I have heard the male side of their role though,they can want to provide financially,because of this they can have difficulty being a feeling human being,I have heard ones who say:"why can't they just be happy with sex",or a more degradatory position which says:"I will stick it in any hole";but you will get variations who will use fraudulent methods to obtain what they want;I know each communication can be exactingly identified,but I have had delusions where you feel there is nothing wrong with you because of how you know yourself and what you have to give.I'm in a position to recognise that a person can live as an individual,I have learned that that can be the best position to take.
Yes! I first encountered the idea of the nocebo effect when I read HEALING BACK PAIN and THE MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION by Dr. John Sarno. Reading those books completely cured my intense, year-long back/hip/sciatic pain, after I had tried everything *but* surgery and fully assumed I would have to go that route. The below passage from one of the books almost exactly mirrors my experience, L5-S1 herniated disk diagnosis and all. (“TMS” refers to the name he gives his diagnosis of physical pain caused by repressed negative emotions. By becoming aware of the emotions, you can banish the pain. I thought it was complete woo-woo BS until I tried his method and it worked 😮)
“The pain epidemic that plagues Western society today is almost entirely a result of the nocebo. You have an attack of back and leg pain, visit the doctor and are told that it is probably a problem with the spine, most likely a herniated disc. Though TMS is harmless, being told that the pain is the direct result of a structural problem ensures that the pain will continue.
Advised to stay in bed, you believe it must be serious, and the pain worsens. Despite bed rest the pain continues and an MRI is ordered; not only does it show a herniated disc at L5–S1, but the doctor informs you that the two discs above the herniated one are degenerated and the vertebral bodies are rubbing together.
This is terrible; you now have objective evidence that you have a “bad” back. Often immediate surgery is recommended, or you are told it may be necessary if you do not respond to conservative treatment.
The result: intensifying pain.
I have heard this history thousands of times. When finally I see the patients, they have tried every known treatment, or have had surgery, sometimes twice, for the nocebo effect has been nurtured throughout. Regardless of the treatment employed, it is always based on structural or muscle deficiency pathology, which deepens your fear and enhances the persistence of pain.
Is it any wonder that some people can get better reading a book that explains the true reason for the pain and tells them that in reality they have normal backs, that most herniated discs are normal abnormalities? That is reversing the nocebo, not by placebo, but by enlisting the power of the mind to heal the body.”
I normally don’t research side effects before I take things, but I have noticed that I am very sensitive, and I do often have side effects, which leads me to researching and often find they are caused by something new I have taken. This is very interesting and I have tried to retrain my brain to believe that medication’s are safe, but I do seem to have detox reactions and other things. I am autistic and perhaps more sensitive. This is very interesting.
I have taken medication which was meant to control levels of dopamine,dopamine is linked to emotional levels,levels of insecurity can occur with this.If someone speaks to someone in the right way and reduces the levels of insecurity,an action which produces this effect could remove the requirement for medication.This is similar to what I have written,it is close to what Dr.Taylor has written about,it is close to subject matter she is interested in.Is this a one way platform,I have offered to clarify,someone is not acting in a two way form of reasoning,the reply suggests a lack of comprehension.
The way that the mind can work based in placebo and nocebo when you know about the minds workings-trying to exact the facts about how both of these work taking into account a view of delusions that need to be understood to work out what does happen in order to direct understanding.Am happy to clarify further,but a full understanding of insecurity means that a belief in a person or substance having a curative effect when a substance is of a neutral value is something I understand but was not indicated by description in Dr.Taylors article.
It's not that amazing if you understand an entirely integrated mind and body,your mind is the main instrument in directing you through life,or it can be seen as the main problem;I have been misdiagnosed,I have been socialising with people with mental health diagnoses,over time with observation you get to know that an entire person is affected with a mental illness,different moods and experiences are coloured with their diagnosis,it may be more obvious to someone who has had a year of Psychotherapy as you are treated as having a history and not placed in a box,and I do write about the effects of insecurity in each person and abbreviates their descriptions,so I know I have had what's known as psychosis,which can also be described as the experience you believe you have being removed from you piecemeal,you think you live with a complete sentence but because it isn't truly complete experience of the outside World can remove varying quantities of it,leaving you in an apparently childlike condition,especially by those who are looking to make a complete sentence of what you've got,if you know what I mean. We all start with insecurity though,it depends on what happens after birth with parents and environmental conditions which can say more about what your future is going to be like.Insecurity is a delusion or not,we are actually safe or not,we are actually who we are,or not,our person is who we are as a true reaction to people and life,it doesn't necessarily stay that way,especially when subjected to school,drink,drugs and a professional life,the different levels of insecurity can make it so that life doesn;t behave in sync with what we need.This is written to coincide with what Dr.Taylor has written about and her qualified professional self.I have taken LSD,I knew someone who attracted me to it,he took it in the late 60s,he said he had a hallucination with some friends where they went past some people doing sports,running,he said he and all his friends saw the sports people change into monsters with big flaring nostrils,I hallucinated once,I could see people and vehicles while I was in the middle of London and they all looked grey and feathery,with what I had been told I was convinced for years that I had seen this outside of my head,but then you work out that that isn't possible because other people would not have seen this;but the main thing that I would like to point out to Dr.Taylor is the effects produced by insecurity that amount to displacement,she has quite a good professional position,but her past experience can displace,as can latin labels for people who don't know what they mean,and if the professional involved hasn't got a required full identification of you,they're not likely to tell you what the label means either,unless you give them more confidence. So,depending on how much truth or reality someone is consistent with,how do people know what the power of the mind is.I've been talking to people who have to face up to the possibility of dementia occurring,viewed as straight,it can seem only linked to diet,excercise,and the way your mind works,there may be other ingredients,but if your mind can't give a full account,what happens to the other two,and then the people who are meant to work out what has happened?
I've changed the way I talk about illness in my home and around others precisely because I learned about the powerful nocebo effect.
We aren't disordered. We are dealing with big emotional turbulences.
We aren't sick. We are detoxing our stored traumas.
This reframing has worked well in our family, and my daughter knows little of the modern "medicine" world.
Wow, I knew there was truth in the “placebo” stuff, but the “nocibo” concept… that’s something new. That’s what diagnosis, medication and even everyday life with the “fear porn” on the news, advertising… is based on. They’re making our society sick, not just with harmful substances on medication and food, but turning our own minds against us! Great article Jess!
Hi Jess, this is a great article and fully agree that it’s really amazing what the mind can do!
I struggle though to hold both dualities in play: “Your thoughts can create your reality / emotions / health” and “Environmental factors can’t be overcome with thoughts alone.”
I say this as a survivor of an abusive relationship and family violence. When I was experiencing significant physical and psychological violence and neglect (including from sexism, racism etc), the perpetrators would say, “It’s all in your head / Just think positive thoughts / it’s the story you’re making up / you just need to heal yourself and take personal responsibility / your feelings are nothing to do with me / that’s your stuff / where you’re attention goes, your energy flows” etc.
The usual new age spiritual stuff mixed up with placebo/nocebo ideas (some were doctors). Lots of gaslighting for victims!!
And yet I’m also fascinated by the type of research you mentioned and fully agree the mind is v powerful. I just tend to reject the “mind creates reality” ideas on principle because they did me more harm than good and I need to remember that systemic / external forces do impact my wellbeing (as a woman I’ve been taught to internalise (“it’s all in my head / I’m overreacting / I need to be more generous with this person “ so now I’m trying to practice externalising more (“maybe he’s the problem / maybe the system is the problem”) and it’s done wonders for my wellbeing!
Because now I’m thinking “I’m having a reasonable reaction to unreasonable circumstances “ instead of gaslighting myself and second guessing myself that maybe it’s all in my head and I’m overreacting
I know what you are talking about,what I have found is that people and what they say can be a cover-up on who they are not,it happens because of insecurity.I know what you say about the female position,you feel like you have a role to play,males feel like they have to provide stability,the thoughts you have provided are,I believe,looking to fulfil your female role as a partner.I'm quite old,the term "gaslighting" can be difficult to understand,it seems to suggest trying to obtain something by using falsity,I know a female who uses that on me to threaten with,she comes from China and wont talk about emotional issues because of their suppression of the personality;but most people have insecurity,it's effects amount to a reduction in a persons capacity to understand descriptions comprehensively because of the varying volumes each person has in their past,so it means each person wants to mean at different speeds,this can mean providing an incomplete description,and sometimes,horribly even,accepting one.I have written here about,if you can identify what is troubling or ailing you,it can possibly be countered by the right type of soothing,I've written elsewhere that a problem with having a mental problem dealt with is seeing someone in a professional capacity who can speak to you in just the right way,in a soft way and suggesting what needs to be done,for instance.I have heard the male side of their role though,they can want to provide financially,because of this they can have difficulty being a feeling human being,I have heard ones who say:"why can't they just be happy with sex",or a more degradatory position which says:"I will stick it in any hole";but you will get variations who will use fraudulent methods to obtain what they want;I know each communication can be exactingly identified,but I have had delusions where you feel there is nothing wrong with you because of how you know yourself and what you have to give.I'm in a position to recognise that a person can live as an individual,I have learned that that can be the best position to take.
Yes! I first encountered the idea of the nocebo effect when I read HEALING BACK PAIN and THE MINDBODY PRESCRIPTION by Dr. John Sarno. Reading those books completely cured my intense, year-long back/hip/sciatic pain, after I had tried everything *but* surgery and fully assumed I would have to go that route. The below passage from one of the books almost exactly mirrors my experience, L5-S1 herniated disk diagnosis and all. (“TMS” refers to the name he gives his diagnosis of physical pain caused by repressed negative emotions. By becoming aware of the emotions, you can banish the pain. I thought it was complete woo-woo BS until I tried his method and it worked 😮)
“The pain epidemic that plagues Western society today is almost entirely a result of the nocebo. You have an attack of back and leg pain, visit the doctor and are told that it is probably a problem with the spine, most likely a herniated disc. Though TMS is harmless, being told that the pain is the direct result of a structural problem ensures that the pain will continue.
Advised to stay in bed, you believe it must be serious, and the pain worsens. Despite bed rest the pain continues and an MRI is ordered; not only does it show a herniated disc at L5–S1, but the doctor informs you that the two discs above the herniated one are degenerated and the vertebral bodies are rubbing together.
This is terrible; you now have objective evidence that you have a “bad” back. Often immediate surgery is recommended, or you are told it may be necessary if you do not respond to conservative treatment.
The result: intensifying pain.
I have heard this history thousands of times. When finally I see the patients, they have tried every known treatment, or have had surgery, sometimes twice, for the nocebo effect has been nurtured throughout. Regardless of the treatment employed, it is always based on structural or muscle deficiency pathology, which deepens your fear and enhances the persistence of pain.
Is it any wonder that some people can get better reading a book that explains the true reason for the pain and tells them that in reality they have normal backs, that most herniated discs are normal abnormalities? That is reversing the nocebo, not by placebo, but by enlisting the power of the mind to heal the body.”
I normally don’t research side effects before I take things, but I have noticed that I am very sensitive, and I do often have side effects, which leads me to researching and often find they are caused by something new I have taken. This is very interesting and I have tried to retrain my brain to believe that medication’s are safe, but I do seem to have detox reactions and other things. I am autistic and perhaps more sensitive. This is very interesting.
Wow, this is incredible. I thought along those lines for some time now and this makes so much sense to me.
I have taken medication which was meant to control levels of dopamine,dopamine is linked to emotional levels,levels of insecurity can occur with this.If someone speaks to someone in the right way and reduces the levels of insecurity,an action which produces this effect could remove the requirement for medication.This is similar to what I have written,it is close to what Dr.Taylor has written about,it is close to subject matter she is interested in.Is this a one way platform,I have offered to clarify,someone is not acting in a two way form of reasoning,the reply suggests a lack of comprehension.
The way that the mind can work based in placebo and nocebo when you know about the minds workings-trying to exact the facts about how both of these work taking into account a view of delusions that need to be understood to work out what does happen in order to direct understanding.Am happy to clarify further,but a full understanding of insecurity means that a belief in a person or substance having a curative effect when a substance is of a neutral value is something I understand but was not indicated by description in Dr.Taylors article.
Sounds you are saying the same, making it more difficult and with a bit of mansplaining added
It's not that amazing if you understand an entirely integrated mind and body,your mind is the main instrument in directing you through life,or it can be seen as the main problem;I have been misdiagnosed,I have been socialising with people with mental health diagnoses,over time with observation you get to know that an entire person is affected with a mental illness,different moods and experiences are coloured with their diagnosis,it may be more obvious to someone who has had a year of Psychotherapy as you are treated as having a history and not placed in a box,and I do write about the effects of insecurity in each person and abbreviates their descriptions,so I know I have had what's known as psychosis,which can also be described as the experience you believe you have being removed from you piecemeal,you think you live with a complete sentence but because it isn't truly complete experience of the outside World can remove varying quantities of it,leaving you in an apparently childlike condition,especially by those who are looking to make a complete sentence of what you've got,if you know what I mean. We all start with insecurity though,it depends on what happens after birth with parents and environmental conditions which can say more about what your future is going to be like.Insecurity is a delusion or not,we are actually safe or not,we are actually who we are,or not,our person is who we are as a true reaction to people and life,it doesn't necessarily stay that way,especially when subjected to school,drink,drugs and a professional life,the different levels of insecurity can make it so that life doesn;t behave in sync with what we need.This is written to coincide with what Dr.Taylor has written about and her qualified professional self.I have taken LSD,I knew someone who attracted me to it,he took it in the late 60s,he said he had a hallucination with some friends where they went past some people doing sports,running,he said he and all his friends saw the sports people change into monsters with big flaring nostrils,I hallucinated once,I could see people and vehicles while I was in the middle of London and they all looked grey and feathery,with what I had been told I was convinced for years that I had seen this outside of my head,but then you work out that that isn't possible because other people would not have seen this;but the main thing that I would like to point out to Dr.Taylor is the effects produced by insecurity that amount to displacement,she has quite a good professional position,but her past experience can displace,as can latin labels for people who don't know what they mean,and if the professional involved hasn't got a required full identification of you,they're not likely to tell you what the label means either,unless you give them more confidence. So,depending on how much truth or reality someone is consistent with,how do people know what the power of the mind is.I've been talking to people who have to face up to the possibility of dementia occurring,viewed as straight,it can seem only linked to diet,excercise,and the way your mind works,there may be other ingredients,but if your mind can't give a full account,what happens to the other two,and then the people who are meant to work out what has happened?
Qualified to give my opinion, who are you?
Sorry, but I’ve read your comment several times, and I don’t quite get the point you’re trying to make, neither what it adds to Jessica’s article
Who are you?Are you qualified to make the comments that you do?