I can relate to so much of what you've said. I hated the one-sided approach, the way I'd sit there and talk and not get much of an answer back. It's like talking to a wall. It felt so demeaning, and as you said, infantilizing. I like being spoken to like an adult, like a real person. The therapists and MD/NP's with whom I've enjoyed working are people who treated me with respect, and told me the answers that I needed to hear, rather that waiting for me to figure it out for myself. Didn't make me feel so patronized.
I think back to how ineffective therapy was when I was younger. Perhaps the therapists weren't cut out to help me. But yes, there's always that blame of "well, maybe you just weren't ready for it yet." I hate that.
Thank you for sharing your perspectives. It's good for people to know there are options when one flavour of support isn't helping them.
I can relate as a person who initially participated in traditional talk / cognitive therapies. In the end this approach became traumatising when the therapist was not trauma informed as I would feel invalidated, minimised, unseen and misunderstood by therapists who would seek to re-frame my experiences based on their opinions and experiences. I felt worse after therapy. And in the end stopped going and believed I was un-fixable. Looking back I had unsuitable therapy and therapists.
It's important for people to know there are different approaches, different flavours of support available. It's not a one size helps all approach.
It gets dangerous when therapists believe their ways, their framework is the only framework.
I recently wrote a substack from a somatic, body based therapy perspective. Addressing how mind/ talk based therapy doesn't resolve trauma which is stored in the body and needs to be worked on at this level for resolution and healing. Like trying to heal a broken leg by talking about it. This doesn't work as it's a different system of the body.
Perhaps you will take a look and let me know what you think?
I hope people will learn there are many approaches, and that if one isn't working to keep looking for support that is helpful for them. And that ultimately they are their own best expert on them. Building agency and empowerment are keys to true healing.
I hope many people find their way to you to get the support you can offer. In 2019 to work through my divorce I knew I didn't want talk therapy, and to work with the body as well and have flexibility and to look forward, not talk too much about the past, only what was relevant to know where we start off. I found the right person and I have been checking in with her ever since. Like once every two months. So valuable.
This is such an interesting piece, and I agree wholeheartedly. Traditional therapy with a psychologist or psychiatrist isn't right for everyone. Life coaching and mentorship can be just as powerful, if not more so, for certain folks. I also recall, from my decade+ in the non-profit health insurance industry, that some folks end up with expensive therapy multiple times a week for years with no progress or positive change, which is wild to me. I can't think of any other profession where the answer is "just keep doing it" when the method clearly isn't working.
There’s an awesome and hilarious book called “We’ve Had 100 Years of Psychotherapy And The World Is Getting Worse.” Precisely because most therapy is about personal change, not political change.
I don’t need to go to more therapy to learn how to feel my feelings, do the body work, the grief work, the shadow work, the narrative work, the meditation, the primal scream, the NVC, the acceptance-and-commitment, the Gestalt work, the bioenergetics, the breathwork, the sacred feminine work, the inner child work.
I need men to leave me alone and to find friends who want to really work on transforming this capitalist, patriarchal, genocidal, ecocidal, military-industrial, imperial, techno-totalitarian, racist, colonial nightmare death economy into the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible.
The personal is political. How convenient for the ruling classes that people go inside more, navel gaze, become obsessed with their childhood wounds and regress to earlier and earlier stages of development, get mired in “anxiety” (oh my anxiety!) and “depression” (oh my meds!)…and forget to stoke a political revolution. Yes your feelings are real and no they’re not all in your head, and yes systemic change is needed not just individualistic solutions like individual therapy, medication, etc.
Seen enough white men who cry about their childhood “wounds” in therapy (not really comparable to most of the brown world children’s trauma) as a great excuse to avoid having to treat their partners as equals and do anything at all around the house. Your therapy is BS if it means you get to 40, 50 years old and still can’t pick up your socks .
This isn’t what therapy is at all. Quite the opposite actually. The therapist is absolutely not the expert and it is absolutely not a hierarchical relationship.
Integrative therapy is exactly all those things that you’ve have described ‘mentoring’ to be. Except that you get a therapist who has had to put in hours of theoretical work, practice and self-reflection to ensure that they have a comprehensive understanding of the human psyche and also worked through all their own issues so they aren’t projecting their own opinions and biases upon others.
I have a Psychology degree which does not qualify me or give me the expertise I need to work with people in this way. I also have a PGDip/MA in Psychotherapy which does.
I don’t think there is any version of therapy where the therapist has ‘worked through all their own issues so they don’t have opinions or biases’ - I think that’s a myth we are all fed, and the most dangerous therapists are the ones that believe that myth about themselves.
Mentoring at least acknowledges these things instead of pretending it is above them.
Therapists cannot separate themselves from their opinions and biases, it’s impossible.
Well it’s a process of course, if things come up that we haven’t worked through because you’re right we’re all human, we bracket that off and then take to therapy. We absolutely do acknowledge them. But yes as a therapist we are constantly working on being able to separate our opinions and also working on our biases. I’m not saying there isn’t a place for coaching or mentoring and I certainly wouldn’t be writing an article berating them and making out that my own discipline is better for reasons that aren’t factually accurate.
I don’t believe there is such thing as ‘bracketing off’ our issues or experiences either - hence why I speak openly about issues within therapeutic models and theories. You are absolutely free to write whatever articles you like, freedom of critique of models is important.
Critique yes - based on evidence and research… in this article you have stated things that aren’t factually accurate. My concern is that many of your followers are vulnerable and will read this and believe what you are saying. This may create barriers in accessing the right support for them.
Self-reflection and examination of biases are important, but you seem to be implying that therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists are held to a higher standard of human experience than everyone else (by whom??), which is completely unrealistic. I am a counselor, not a gatekeeper of knowledge or someone who can somehow separate myself *from* myself. If I withheld counseling until I bracketed all of my crap or "worked through it" then I would never do this at all. The best thing we can be as therapists is real.
I actually think it's the titles / labels that are the issue. Ultimately it's the style of the person a client is working with.
Has a mentor / coach worked through all their stuff and shows no biases or opinions in their work, even covertly and unconsciously? I doubt it.
Find a style / practitioner that works for you rather than getting bogged down in labels and job titles.
I can relate to so much of what you've said. I hated the one-sided approach, the way I'd sit there and talk and not get much of an answer back. It's like talking to a wall. It felt so demeaning, and as you said, infantilizing. I like being spoken to like an adult, like a real person. The therapists and MD/NP's with whom I've enjoyed working are people who treated me with respect, and told me the answers that I needed to hear, rather that waiting for me to figure it out for myself. Didn't make me feel so patronized.
I think back to how ineffective therapy was when I was younger. Perhaps the therapists weren't cut out to help me. But yes, there's always that blame of "well, maybe you just weren't ready for it yet." I hate that.
Thank you for sharing your perspectives. It's good for people to know there are options when one flavour of support isn't helping them.
I can relate as a person who initially participated in traditional talk / cognitive therapies. In the end this approach became traumatising when the therapist was not trauma informed as I would feel invalidated, minimised, unseen and misunderstood by therapists who would seek to re-frame my experiences based on their opinions and experiences. I felt worse after therapy. And in the end stopped going and believed I was un-fixable. Looking back I had unsuitable therapy and therapists.
It's important for people to know there are different approaches, different flavours of support available. It's not a one size helps all approach.
It gets dangerous when therapists believe their ways, their framework is the only framework.
I recently wrote a substack from a somatic, body based therapy perspective. Addressing how mind/ talk based therapy doesn't resolve trauma which is stored in the body and needs to be worked on at this level for resolution and healing. Like trying to heal a broken leg by talking about it. This doesn't work as it's a different system of the body.
Perhaps you will take a look and let me know what you think?
I hope people will learn there are many approaches, and that if one isn't working to keep looking for support that is helpful for them. And that ultimately they are their own best expert on them. Building agency and empowerment are keys to true healing.
https://open.substack.com/pub/justinelloyd/p/feeling-stuck?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=oyjiy
I hope many people find their way to you to get the support you can offer. In 2019 to work through my divorce I knew I didn't want talk therapy, and to work with the body as well and have flexibility and to look forward, not talk too much about the past, only what was relevant to know where we start off. I found the right person and I have been checking in with her ever since. Like once every two months. So valuable.
This is such an interesting piece, and I agree wholeheartedly. Traditional therapy with a psychologist or psychiatrist isn't right for everyone. Life coaching and mentorship can be just as powerful, if not more so, for certain folks. I also recall, from my decade+ in the non-profit health insurance industry, that some folks end up with expensive therapy multiple times a week for years with no progress or positive change, which is wild to me. I can't think of any other profession where the answer is "just keep doing it" when the method clearly isn't working.
There’s an awesome and hilarious book called “We’ve Had 100 Years of Psychotherapy And The World Is Getting Worse.” Precisely because most therapy is about personal change, not political change.
I don’t need to go to more therapy to learn how to feel my feelings, do the body work, the grief work, the shadow work, the narrative work, the meditation, the primal scream, the NVC, the acceptance-and-commitment, the Gestalt work, the bioenergetics, the breathwork, the sacred feminine work, the inner child work.
I need men to leave me alone and to find friends who want to really work on transforming this capitalist, patriarchal, genocidal, ecocidal, military-industrial, imperial, techno-totalitarian, racist, colonial nightmare death economy into the more beautiful world our hearts know is possible.
The personal is political. How convenient for the ruling classes that people go inside more, navel gaze, become obsessed with their childhood wounds and regress to earlier and earlier stages of development, get mired in “anxiety” (oh my anxiety!) and “depression” (oh my meds!)…and forget to stoke a political revolution. Yes your feelings are real and no they’re not all in your head, and yes systemic change is needed not just individualistic solutions like individual therapy, medication, etc.
Seen enough white men who cry about their childhood “wounds” in therapy (not really comparable to most of the brown world children’s trauma) as a great excuse to avoid having to treat their partners as equals and do anything at all around the house. Your therapy is BS if it means you get to 40, 50 years old and still can’t pick up your socks .
This isn’t what therapy is at all. Quite the opposite actually. The therapist is absolutely not the expert and it is absolutely not a hierarchical relationship.
Integrative therapy is exactly all those things that you’ve have described ‘mentoring’ to be. Except that you get a therapist who has had to put in hours of theoretical work, practice and self-reflection to ensure that they have a comprehensive understanding of the human psyche and also worked through all their own issues so they aren’t projecting their own opinions and biases upon others.
I have a Psychology degree which does not qualify me or give me the expertise I need to work with people in this way. I also have a PGDip/MA in Psychotherapy which does.
Hey Sarah,
I don’t think there is any version of therapy where the therapist has ‘worked through all their own issues so they don’t have opinions or biases’ - I think that’s a myth we are all fed, and the most dangerous therapists are the ones that believe that myth about themselves.
Mentoring at least acknowledges these things instead of pretending it is above them.
Therapists cannot separate themselves from their opinions and biases, it’s impossible.
Well it’s a process of course, if things come up that we haven’t worked through because you’re right we’re all human, we bracket that off and then take to therapy. We absolutely do acknowledge them. But yes as a therapist we are constantly working on being able to separate our opinions and also working on our biases. I’m not saying there isn’t a place for coaching or mentoring and I certainly wouldn’t be writing an article berating them and making out that my own discipline is better for reasons that aren’t factually accurate.
I don’t believe there is such thing as ‘bracketing off’ our issues or experiences either - hence why I speak openly about issues within therapeutic models and theories. You are absolutely free to write whatever articles you like, freedom of critique of models is important.
Critique yes - based on evidence and research… in this article you have stated things that aren’t factually accurate. My concern is that many of your followers are vulnerable and will read this and believe what you are saying. This may create barriers in accessing the right support for them.
Self-reflection and examination of biases are important, but you seem to be implying that therapists/psychologists/psychiatrists are held to a higher standard of human experience than everyone else (by whom??), which is completely unrealistic. I am a counselor, not a gatekeeper of knowledge or someone who can somehow separate myself *from* myself. If I withheld counseling until I bracketed all of my crap or "worked through it" then I would never do this at all. The best thing we can be as therapists is real.